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Mike Smith <mvandco@msn.com>
To:                murry gibbs <gunnermadmur@neo.rr.com>, Mr Fred McKeller <fdmckjr@aol.com>,
Corky Walsh <medevac454@aol.com>, Hatch II Larry <g602dr@gmail.com>, Leo Williams
<airbandit68@gmail.com>, Larry Hatch <campingout@comcast.net>, Art Jacobs
<ajacobs@valkyrieconsultinggroup.com>, Bob and Sandra Mackenly <usaretbob@aol.com>,
Leo Williams <dragin52@hotmail.com>, Dave Huser <dmhuser@gmail.com>, Jim Calibro
<jimcc4@att.net>, Ron Huether <ron@hueyproductions.com>
Cc:       

        
Subject:        RE: 15th Med QUESTIONS - ANSWERS
Priority:        Normal        Date:        Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:29 AM        Size:        70 KB

Art and Murray

Go to page fifteen section G line five.
Now look at the date of 25 April 2013 on the second page of the association CB&L'S.   We should
of had all of the passwords user names licenses software pin numbers given to the president and
the EC at that time. There is No and I say again no provisions stating any thing about a contract
with the web master or his replacement! Art did you have a contract with Murray I would like to
see it. Was this information on the site given to Leo or me in Orlando or Boise!  Telling me I dont
follow the CB&L's is the pot calling the kettle black. Murry send Ron at Huey productions the info
he needs and we can put this to rest. I guarantee we will set up a contract with Ron at the next
convention when we can do so in person. ARE your ears open.

Smitty
Prez
15th Med association
Art Jacobs <ajacobs@valkyrieconsultinggroup.com>
To:                mvandco <mvandco@msn.com>
Cc:                Leo Williams <airbandit68@gmail.com>, Leo Williams <dragin52@hotmail.com>,
Jim Calibro <medevacchopper@aol.com>, Larry Hatch <campingout@comcast.net>, Hatch II
Larry <g602dr@gmail.com>, Corky Walsh <medevac454@aol.com>, Mr Fred McKeller
<fdmckjr@aol.com>, Mr Murray Gibbs <gunnermadmur@neo.rr.com>, Bob and Sandra
Mackenly <usaretbob@aol.com>, Dave Huser <dmhuser@gmail.com>


Subject:        MY REPLY
Priority:        Normal        Date:        Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:47 AM        Size:        66 KB

On 26 Oct 15, at 6:31 PM, mvandco <mvandco@msn.com> wrote:

Art
I will only say this this one time.
Murray or Murry has no right to keep the password or account number from the the new web
master. It is the property of the association not his.

Again, I will respond to your statements, starting with the above:

When he was the Webmaster, Murray saw part of his job being to protect that website, not just
from malware, etc., but to make sure that the content and all the history would be preserved.

YES, the website is the property of the Association, but Murray, as a member of that Association,
has the right, even the obligation, to make sure that it does not fall into incompetent hands, or
into the hands of someone who might abuse it.

The EC allowed the website to fall into incompetent hands when Leo Williams was appointed
(half-baked plan).

You entirely missed my point previously (what else is new). I will go slower: I published quarterly
newsletters for the website. Corky Walsh published quarterly newsletters for the website.

I did so because I thought it was the right thing to do to keep the members abreast of what was
happening (news on members, the American Huey gathering, the upcoming reunion in
Sacramento under Jim Calibro, etc.) Corky followed that precedent, not just because he knew it
was a good thing and the right thing, but by then, that “President duty” was published in the
C&BL’s (which were unanimously approved in Sacramento).

Leo did not do so because as he showed, he was an absentee President (but I shall beat that
dead horse no more).

My point was that IF YOU had sent a President’s Quarterly Newsletter to Leo following
Sacramento, it would have been THEN, NOT FIVE MONTHS later that you would have realized
that you had a problem on your hands! THEN it was a problem to effectively manage. By SEP-
OCT it was a crisis filled with emotion. YOU as the President allowed the problem to drift and
fester into being a crisis those many months. You inherited a problem, but then aggravated it by
inaction.

I deal with a lot of technical support personnel with my software clients. They have a favorite
saying when the account manager for a client is not doing their job (that aptly fits the bill
regarding you and Murray - he could just as easily being saying this to you): “An out-of-control
condition on your part does not constitute and emergency on my part.”

He has no right to set provisions on the release of the web site regardless of his wishes.

You, and the opinion of others may be so, but if Murray feels that this website transition has the
same smell of being half-baked, not well-planned, and not thought through, thank goodness there
are guys like Murray that will hold up the train.

He and I have both offered a simple solution to your dilemma. A solution, by the way, that makes
perfect and legitimate business sense. A solution that a President and the EC could have
knocked in a day or two - many weeks ago. A solution that would protect the website for the
future, and be documented so that future Presidents and EC’s would have a record:

Send the written agreement / instructions / expectations / contract (whatever you want to call it) to
Murray so that he can see that you and the EC are making a good business decision. Murray has
already agreed to that provision. Problem solved - but the ball is in your court.

This has NOTHING to do with whether or not Ron is competent, but everything to do with
properly ensuring that the next Webmaster will be accurately positioned and managed and
supervised in the Association.

IF YOU REALLY WANT THIS TO END, DO YOUR JOB AS THE PRESIDENT. Set Murray’s
mind at ease, set my mind at ease, and quite frankly, whether or not they care about such things
(if they just want to show up at reunions), do the right thing for the members YOU ARE
SUPPOSED to be representing.

I as President am on his third and final dead Line for him to release the information The EC has
voted unanimously to suspend him and I am reluctant to do that because of his service to us in
both Vietnam and to our association.

The EC can vote all it wants, but if you will please read the C&BL’s, the EC CANNOT suspend or
expel an Association member. All that the EC can do is recommend to the members at the annual
business meeting that someone be expelled. Then a motion must be made from the floor,
seconded, and discussion held. AND, according to that same C&BL’s, that member has the right
of offer reasons and evidence that they should not be suspended or expelled.

Murray is prepared to defend himself if it should come to that.

But again, that unfortunate scene can easily be avoided, feathers smoothed, and the Association
back on track by constructing and publishing the aforementioned agreement for the new
Webmaster. If that happens Mike (and I am not saying I have a crystal ball), but future Presidents
and EC members will look back on that and ask, “Who was at the controls of the ship for allowing
that when it could have been avoided?"

As far as the C& BL'S I have no knowledge of that

“That?“ No knowledge of what - your sentence is unclear.

as the state commander of Idaho representative of all disabled veterans in Idaho.  Lobbying in
Washington DC on veteran bills And being on the Dav National committee.
On the council for the veterans memorial hall here In my home town.
And the commander of my DAV chapter #1 Caldwell Idaho for six years. I could ask you what
have you done for your fellow veteran’s.

WHAT IN HEAVEN’S NAME does that have to do with anything???

No one has said that you are not an honorable veteran, or that you haven’t supported veteran
causes. This is out of left field.

STICK to the issue at hand.

IF you had 20 organizations listed and I had none, OR it was the other way around, it would have
NOTHING to do with this issue. You are deflecting and muddying the water. Oh yeah, you forgot
to mention singing in the choir and being a boy scout.

I could make up a list of my service to veterans, non-profits, charities, (and literally) the homeless,
orphans, and the underprivileged, in this country and others, BUT I WILL NOT.

YOU INSULT yourself in making this some kind of “contest” about who has done what in their
community. DO NOT GO THERE.

I have worked hard for my fellow veterans and our association. It is my brotherhood and I take
great offence to the things I have been blamed for that were beyond my control

As has been stated by me before, YOU DID inherit the mess caused by Leo in not making sure
that the amendment regarding Murray was submitted in writing 60 days in advance, AND, for the
EC meeting agenda not be published and provided to each member and Murray when they
arrived in Boise.

From the time you received the gavel, all else that has occurred has been on YOUR WATCH.

and will be taken care  of at the next reunion. Murray should never had been on the EC but
should be allowed to attend the EC meeting to report on it.
That is sop of every association I have ever belonged to.

You make a valid point. THEN, a proper amendment should have been in writing 60 days in
advance. Despite how you personally feel about the amendment, Leo’s job, and NOW YOUR
JOB, is to abide by the C&BL’s and to protect Murray’s rights.

WE all went to war for the principle of protecting other peoples’ rights - even their right to dissent.
Murray and I are dissenting and all you can do is huff and puff, swear, and try to “wheedle"
around the C&BL’s to get rid of us because we irritate you by asking “pesky” questions about
silly procedures. How dare we ask that things be done correctly?!?

Oh ya Roberts Rules are a mystery to me also .

I don’t know what to say about this. If something is a mystery to you, but comes into play when
you have a responsibility, you seek out advice, read a book, study, and unravel the mystery. I
cannot help you there if you do not see your own limitations, or, you lack the initiative to educate
yourself. Go to Barnes & Noble. Go to Amazon.com.

As far as the president's page on the web site. Where would you suggest I sent it to since there
was no web master at the time right after the reunion.  Come on really?  

THERE WAS A WEBMASTER - IT WAS LEO!!!. Again, if you had sent him a newsletter, you
would have learned THEN (in its early stages) that something needed to be addressed because
either he didn’t know how to post newsletters, or complained that Murray wouldn’t let him. I mean
"come on really” back to you Mike, it is “your party” as you once reminded me.

Also I do not have a vote unless there is a tie we have not had that happen yet. If you and Murray
are contacting each other I would advice him to immediately release the information to the new
web master or my hand are tied to suspend him.

Your hands are not tied - there is a path to daylight.

In other words Art get off my back I am trying to clear up this mess and help us end this please.

If you are trying to clear up this mess, I do not see you making any progress. Real leaders fully
understand the situation, can look at both sides of the argument, and look for and find common
ground or how to compromise so that both sides are satisfied (if not entirely happy) with the
outcome.

I am not attacking you, BUT ATTACKING the things that you and Leo have not done and not
done. I stand by those facts.

Smitty
Art Jacobs <ajacobs@valkyrieconsultinggroup.com>
To:                Mike Smith <mvandco@msn.com>
Cc:                Mr Murray Gibbs <gunnermadmur@neo.rr.com>, Mr Fred McKeller <fdmckjr@aol.
com>, Corky Walsh <medevac454@aol.com>, Hatch II Larry <g602dr@gmail.com>, Leo
Williams <airbandit68@gmail.com>, Larry Hatch <campingout@comcast.net>, Bob and Sandra
Mackenly <usaretbob@aol.com>, Leo Williams <dragin52@hotmail.com>, Dave Huser
<dmhuser@gmail.com>, Jim Calibro <jimcc4@att.net>, Ron Huether <ron@hueyproductions.
com>


Subject:        Re: 15th Med QUESTIONS - ANSWERS
Priority:        Normal        Date:        Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:08 PM        Size:        81 KB


On 27 Oct 15, at 10:29 AM, Mike Smith <mvandco@msn.com> wrote:


Art and Murray

Go to page fifteen section G line five.
Now look at the date of 25 April 2013 on the second page of the association CB&L'S.   We
should of had all of the passwords user names licenses software pin numbers given to the
president and the EC at that time. There is No and I say again no provisions stating any thing
about a contract with the web master or his replacement! Art did you have a contract with Murray
I would like to see it. Was this information on the site given to Leo or me in Orlando or Boise!  
Telling me I dont follow the CB&L's is the pot calling the kettle black.

THAT IS WHY THE C&BL’s WERE RE-WRITTEN. BECAUSE THINGS LIKE THAT WERE NOT
IN PLACE FOR 11 YEARS AND STUFF WAS DONE HAPHAZARDLY.

CHECK YOUR DATES BEFORE YOU MAKE STUPID STATEMENTS, BECAUSE YOU
SHOULD BE MAKING THAT CHARGE TO CORKY, NOT ME, BECAUSE IT WAS HE WHO
BECAME THE PRESIDENT WHEN THE C&BL’S WERE APPROVED. AND WHO FOLLOWED
CORKY?

IF YOU ARE (OR WERE) SO CONCERNED ABOUT THE PASSWORDS. WHY DIDN’T YOU
SECURE THEM ON THE FIRST DAY of YOUR PRESIDENCY?

ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO HANG YOUR HAT ON THAT? I RE-WROTE THE C&BL’S FOR
THAT PURPOSE.

THEY WENT INTO EFFECT WHEN CORKY TOOK OVER.

PRIOR TO SACRAMENTO, ALL THAT WAS IN PLACE WAS THE WEBMASTER'S JOB
DESCRIPTION AND THE PASSAGE YOU CITE.

THEN THERE WAS BOISE MEETING AND THE AMBUSH - SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRETTY
CLEAR THAT A JOB DESCRIPTION DID NOT SUFFICE. AND PLEASE REMEMBER THAT I
WAS NOT THERE TO SEE THE CRAPPY WAY THIS WENT DOWN.

GIVEN THIS FIASCO, IT IS WELL WITHIN THE POWER OF THE EC TO ESTABLISH
CONTRACTS WITH VENDORS FOR SERVICES RENDERED NOT REQUIRING AN
AMENDMENT TO THE C&BL’S.

YOU MAY SAY THAT RON IS A MEMBER, NOT A VENDOR, BUT IN THIS CASE HE IS
ACTUALLY BOTH, BECAUSE HE HAS A REGISTERED BUSINESS THAT PERFORMS
THESE SERVICES. I AM ASSUMING OF COURSE THAT IN HIS STATE A BUSINESS
LICENSE IS REQUIRED AND THAT HE IS INSURED.

BUT IT IS NICE TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE FINALLY READING THE C&BL’S AFTER SIX
LONG MONTHS.

Murray send Ron at Huey productions the info he needs and we can put this to rest. I guarantee
we will set up a contract with Ron at the next convention when we can do so in person. ARE your
ears open.

SET IT UP NOW. YOU DO NOT LET SOMEONE LIVE IN YOUR HOUSE FOR SIX MONTHS
WITHOUT A LEASE OR RENTAL AGREEMENT. YOU CAN OUT THIS TO REST IN MAKING A
GOOD BUSINESS DECISION.

BALL’S IN YOUR COURT, NOT MURRAY’S...

Art
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